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[I-coordination] The self correcting nature of the American system? Judge rules against NSA tapping program. Snowden vindicated?

Bob Bruen korg at
Wed Dec 18 22:21:14 CET 2013

Hi Michele,

Inline, bob

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:

> Bob
> I honestly do not think that this is the correct venue for bashing 
> ICANN, registrars or Compliance. I don't see how your contributions on 
> this topic are beneficial or constructive and they are also, as stated 
> previously, factually challenged.

I did not start out to bash ICANN or anything else, however there are lots 
emails bashing ICANN and others entities, so I think your statement is not 
quite true. Whether it should be true is something else.

I was responding to other people making statements which I thought were 
factually incorrect regarding ICANN and the Registrars and your denials do 
not change that. You haven't shown where my facts were wrong.

> If ICANN's Compliance team wasn't taking any action against any 
> registrar then my staff wouldn't have spent hours putting together 
> material in order to respond to their audit this year and our name would 
> be listed here:

So you are saying that your company is is doing something wrong? And ICANN 
is investigating you?

What I said was is that ICANN rarely takes away accreditaion for reasons 
other than non-payment. I also said that Fadi made some statements that 
indicate that he not going to much about Compliance. These are true and 

> There is a bulk whois complaint process and when you raised concerns 
> about this during the public forum at the Buenos Aires meeting your 
> queries were addressed by ICANN's CEO.

Fadi did address my question, however it was an accurate but not true, 
answer. The bulk complaint system is running, but a tiny fraction of what 
it should be. That does not qualify as a real answer.

>> From what I could gather you currently are not using it, so any limits 
>> that may exist are moot.

I am involved, as you know, in filing complaints with ICANN, so you 
gathered wrong here.

> There are a lot of things in the RAA and depending on which version of 
> the contract a registrar is on the obligations may vary. Picking out a 
> clause in the contract that was rarely used and sending requests to the 
> help desks of hundreds of registrars doesn't really prove anything.

Sorry, it is part of the RAA. I did not send the requests to the help, but 
instead used the official contact email. If some of the registrars opted 
to point that to their help, it's not my fault. Moreover, if the help desk 
did not know what is then they should have followed normal procedure and 
escalated to a higher level until it was answered.

The responses did come from higher levels than the help desk, although I 
am not sure at what level the death threats came from.

> Stating that "the registrars do not follow the RAA" is a blanket 
> statement. It is factually incorrect.

It is blanket statement concerning my bulk whois survey, which, again, is 
true and accurate. Only *one* registrar responded appropriately and only a 
couple of others knew what I was talking about. All registrars should have 
read the RAA and should follow it. In this case they (all but a few) had 
not read it and did not follow it.

> Are all registrars "angels"? Probably not.
> If they were ICANN wouldn't have a Compliance department.
> Claiming that ICANN only takes action for non-payment is also factually 
> incorrect.

Once again. misleading, I did not say "only" ...
> While many of the Compliance actions may include payment issues they 
> also include plenty of other reasons for the notice.

Breach notices are not the same as taking away accreditaion. Look at the
list for past five years, then count them.
> And while I am glad that you recognize that my clients are not criminals 
> your previous statements, worded in the manner that you chose, would 
> lead anyone to believe otherwise.

I choose my words just like everyone else. Why would you try to turn 
that into a criticism?
> The 2013 RAA includes several new obligations on registrars, while the 
> new registry contracts also include obligations on registries. These in 
> turn will be passed onto registrants.

Dr. Robert Bruen
KnujOn Org

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