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[I-coordination] A different model

Bob Bruen korg at
Thu Dec 12 15:24:54 CET 2013

Hi Phillip,

On Thu, 12 Dec 2013, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
> You are misrepresenting what I said. When someone uses a collective noun that refers to 300 million
> people it is generally interpreted as asserting something is true of most of them rather than an
> assertion that is it is true of all of them without exception.

I have not misrepresented anything. If you meant "most" and not "all," 
then you should say that. Moreover, it doesn't matter, especially since 
the word probably should be "some." You have made general statements about 
a group of people, which usually does not work well.

> Given that my opinions of the actions of the last administration are widely held in the country it is
> obviously not the case that no Americans share them. Indeed I think virtually every member of the
> current administration would agree with me on what should be done if not the political expediency of
> doing so.

Again you are making wild, general statements without any facts to support 
them and you have not made explicit what you mean by "actions" and "what 
should be done."  It is quite difficult to solve problems without clarity 
of the nature of the problem.

> But when someone who is not a US national raises an issue with a US government action they will get the
> McCarthyite 'anti-American' smear and unless they also undermine their statement by stating that not
> all Americans agreed with it they get the 'we are not all responsible' complaint you and Ken just made.

Again, wild statements... Who exactly has criticized the US government and 
got the McCarthy treatment from whom? Where did the "not responsible" come 
from? Average Americans are not any more responsible than the average Brit 
is for what David Cameron does.

Keep in mind that the UK has been in bed with the NSA since the early days 
of Echelon through today, along with the other three English speaking 
countries. People who live in glass houses and all that.

There is big difference in how I (and Ken and others) feel about things 
and what we can actually do about them. Forums like this one are places 
where we can talk, with the goal of trying to make things better through 

> What I am saying here is that you have to knock it off. My nationality does not mean I have any less
> right to criticize your government than you do.

What exactly should I knock off? I have not said you have no right to 
criticize the US government. Do you mean I should stop holding you 
accountable for emotion-based statements instead of factual ones?

I criticize lots of governments and expect that I can continue do so. I 
also expect that whatever I think is okay for me is okay for everyone.

You sound like someone burned you in the past and have not gotten over it.


Dr. Robert Bruen
KnujOn Org

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