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[I-coordination] A different model

Ken Stubbs kstubbs at
Thu Dec 12 04:26:18 CET 2013

On 12/11/2013 10:08 PM, Ken Stubbs wrote:
> I'm sorry but I have to take umbrage with your first statement here 
> Dr. Hallam-Baker.
> Your sentiments are very broad generalizations and not at all 
> necessarily the case.
> Granted, there are those here in the US that feel the way your 
> describing, but there is also a very large
> number who feel quite differently.  There are a significant number of 
> Americans who are
> very critical of the way that the US government has approached dealing 
> with the issues
> around the NSA disclosures.
> Many of us are quite concerned about the approach taken by the US 
> government with respect
> to personal privacy issues.  We look to privacy policy models 
> developed by other countries
> such is Germany, the UK, Canada, Ireland, and the Scandinavian 
> countries and are encouraging our government
> to work more closely to adopt laws and policies which reflect these 
> underlying ideals.
> Many times in the past we have embraced excellent solutions have been 
> proposed by institutions, organizations, as well as individuals,
> domiciled outside the United States .
> As is the case in many countries, the words and writings of a few do 
> not necessarily represent the feelings of the majority.
> Personally, I and many Americans do not like being painted with the 
> brush your using here.
> Ken Stubbs
> On 12/11/2013 1:13 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
>> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Bob Bruen <korg at 
>> <mailto:korg at>> wrote:
>>          No one said there was zero inflence, but much of the
>>     criticism is
>>          hyperbolic because of the dislike of the US government.
>>          I think "massive" is hyperbolic.
>> The thing that actually annoys me most about the current situation is 
>> that Americans simply can't take any criticism of their government 
>> without throwing accusations of anti-Americanism.
>> The big issue here is accountability and the US nationals don't want 
>> their government to be accountable to non-nationals. Which is not 
>> compatible with the US government being in control of the Internet.
>> Whoever is in control has to accept accountability. If people don't 
>> want their motives or their honesty to be challenged then they should 
>> not run for public office. I make no apologies at all for asking if 
>> the reason a judge makes the rulings he does is because his wife 
>> receives $750K per year in lobbying fees from organizations 
>> litigating cases in his court.
>> If the US does not want to accept accountability then it can't play 
>> that role. 'You have to let us lead or you are being anti-American' 
>> is not a persuasive case.
>> Accusing people who raise relevant questions of 'anti-Americanism' 
>> has to be considered unacceptable if we are going to proceed.
>> As it happens I don't think that there is any group that has a large 
>> degree of concern about the decisions the US has taken in its role. 
>> The issue is what they might do in the future. And the one thing we 
>> know with certainty here is that there will be a new President in 
>> 2017 and possibly a different agenda.
>> -- 
>> Website:
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>> I-coordination mailing list
>> I-coordination at

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