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[I-coordination] Europe at a tipping point?

Carlos A. Afonso ca at
Tue Dec 10 18:37:00 CET 2013

Before we end up blaming just govs for everything bad in the world, let
us remind ourselves that the dictatorships or "authoritatian regimes"
are fundamentally sustained by big wigs of the private sector operating
within or outside their borders, with the help (or outright lead) of a
major power.

Now we have the "five-eyes" group of countries which are part of the
most massive, pervasive, permanent violation of private rights ever --
this pervasiness and massive no-barriers operation with state-of-the-art
techs, special legislation and money-is-no-object power involves five of
the so-called advanced democracies (yes, NZ and AU included), spying on
their own citizens at will, and on any other citizen in the world,
violating constitutions, bills of rights, fairness in trial and
prosecution, you name it. And the major objective is not security, is
economic leverage (latest case: Aussies unlawfully peeking into East
Timorese offices to gain leverage in an oil&gas exploration deal).

So, what is the decision? We band together in a Brancaleone bunch to
keep ourselves in a fringe and achieve nothing or try and work together
with those horribly untrustful guys, trying to converge to a reasonable
outcome of ensuring neutrality of the net, privacy, due process or law
and overall basic respect for human rights?

fraternal regards


On 12/10/2013 03:13 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 5:27 AM, Peter Dengate Thrush <
> barrister at> wrote:
>> Hello Carlos,
>> One of the delights of the ccTLD world is the diversity of governance
>> models, including the varying degrees of government involvement, ranging
>> from complete government ownership and control to no government presence at
>> all.
>> What are the advantages ( assuming some) of having govt representatives
>> round the table in Brazil?
>> Is there a different kind of interaction (qualitatively or quantitatively)
>> between the reps. from Federal and the State rep?  Are there issues where
>> it would have been better to have had no government reps..,more?
>> I can imagine other cultures less "robust" than Brazil where the presence
>> of even 1 government official would have a chilling effect: is  having
>> government presence ever a problem in Brazil?
> At what time, now, in the past or at some arbitrary date in the future?
> There have certainly been times within my lifetime when the rulers of
> Brazil would murder their political enemies. And the US was an active and
> willing participant in many of those crimes.
> As a non-US citizen I get rather annoyed by the pom-pom waving celebrations
> of "US ideals" of freedom and justice given the very recent history of
> working for the dictators. I also get rather annoyed by the condescension
> that US politicians often display towards the countries whose progress
> their country has been disrupting.
> No government has clean hands here. At the end of the cold war Margaret
> Thatcher claimed to be speaking on behalf of all the Western governments
> when she urged Gorbachev to send in the tanks to stop the fall of the
> Berlin wall.
> The problem is that governments are made up of factions and just as  every
> country has a communist faction, every country has a fascist one. And most
> often those fascist tendencies bubble up to the surface in the corridors of
> power. When JFK asked the chiefs of staff for options on invading Cuba,
> they proposed false flag terrorist operations on US soil murdering US
> citizens as a pretext for the invasion. The better organized Italian
> fascists actually managed to carry out such an attack, the bologna railway
> bombing.
> The fact that these fascist tendencies exist and are able to exercise power
> even in countries like the US is part of the reason that we need the
> Internet so that it can foil such plots by bringing them to light.
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